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From the Daily Racing Form forum:

• This might be the biggest indictment of the Breeders Cup and the influence it has in the Eclipse Award voting...Toccet won the Champagne, the Laurel Futurity, the Remsen, and the Hollywood Futurity. Before 1984, that would have been more than enough to clinch the 2YO Eclipse Award.

• Its very plain and simple, Toccet has accomplished more this year then did Vindication. Toccet ducked no one, he showed up at every dance.

• Toccet won two G1, one G2, and one G3 on 4 different tracks spanning the whole country! Vindication won one G1 and one G3. Toccet is the champion!

• And Toccet done all that in what - 2 months?!

• I think I read in DRF that a lot of the folks who vote will probably have voted before todays race. Hope some of them decided to wait!

• Thats crazy, to vote before the end of the year. It doesnt even seem fair.

• If Toccet is awarded the top Juvenile Crown, I believe the glory will be short-lived, because even though Toccet ran a top level performance in the Hollywood Futurity, I am not convinced that he will touch Vindication going 1 ¼ miles.

• I completely disagree with your statement that Toccet will not touch Vindication next year.

Some of the folks at Derby List see it this way:

• If Vindication were my horse, he likely would have been at Aqueduct on November 30 for a rematch with Toccet in the Remsen if for no other reason than to try and shut up Daniel Borislow, and if he lost to Toccet there but came out OK otherwise (and not beaten too badly), another showdown in the Hollywood Futurity.

• I agree with you wholeheartedly. At this point, Toccet seems to be cast from the mold of yesteryear...a racehorse that can really RACE.

• You must not like money much. Why run a horse if it might cause him to lose the Eclipse award and the right to the 2 year old champion? Baffert is taking the conservative plan and wants to have a fresh horse for the Triple Crown.

• Objectively, Vindication deserves the Eclipse award. He is undefeated, won the championship race, and beat Toccet in their one head-to-head matchup. Subjectively, (IMO) Toccet is the best juvenile in the country. I was one of 6175 that saw Toccet live yesterday and I was one who saw the BC Juvenile live. I believe that Toccet in yesterday's form would have easily beaten Vindication in his Breeders' Cup form.

The fans at The Final Turn forum expressed these opinions:

• Should a MSW, O Clm, G3, G1 campaign add up to an automatic, unassailable Eclipse? A month and a half ago I too would have rated Vindication as the best 2YO. But that undefeated four-race campaign was not a rubber stamp to a championship...It is quite unlike the four races Storm Flag Flying put together: MSW followed by three G1's. Toccet is the champ and it will be a shame if voters don't recognize that...

• Vindication beat Toccet by 16 lengths too. Vindication was also undefeated. There is nothing wrong with being 2nd in the voting to Vindication!!!

• I think it's a matter of what we place the emphasis on. All I can think of is that Toccet got his rear end whipped by Vindication on Breeder's Cup day. Post or no, he should have put in a better effort than that.

• Toccet's done something remarkable in these post-BC months, and adding that with the original premier 2yo race in the Champagne, and my "vote" would be for him.

• Gotta disagree there...The fields Toccet has defeated so far (including the Champagne) were not the strongest, to say the least. I realize a horse can only beat who shows up, but Vindication is the one who showed up when it mattered most.

• I think the baseline problem here is that people are more comfortable voting for and supporting voting for a colt who has run a conventional 2yo campaign. Lightly raced, carefully managed, and winner of the BC Juvie. Vindication fits that to a T. Then you bring in a colt who runs against the thinking of the past 2 decades, and people don't know what to do with him. Toccet definitely has the more impressive record this year, and campaign.

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